Joke? Or deliberate insult?

158 comments on “Joke? Or deliberate insult? ”

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1. Maynard J 1

   13 May 2010 at 12:14 pm

   He was talking about Australian cannibals.
   • Mac1 1.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:37 pm

     Is this a dig at our nearest neighbours or did you not read/hear the words said?

     The reference was clearly to Tuhoe, and made as a joke with attendant laughter in the voice.

     ‘Cept it ain’t funny, as would be a similar reference to our Australian cousins be unfunny.

     I’ve just finished a season of a Roger Hall play in which I delivered a line lightly derogatory to Australians. Screams of laughter with most other laugh lines, but that one tended to be much less enjoyed. I wonder if we are getting more mature as a society.
     • Lew 1.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 12:38 pm

       Mac1, easy. It’s a reference to the fact that when Key said “I want to see wages drop” he later claimed to be referring to Australian wages.

       A pretty oblique reference, but nevertheless.

       L
       • Mac1 1.1.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 12:43 pm

         Thanks, Lew. So oblique I got blind-sided by it.

         Roger Hall tended to be a bit less subtle, and me a bit too anally retentive!
         • Bright Red 1.1.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 1:34 pm

           That cracked me up Maynard – a oldy but a goody.

           captcha: ‘mistaking’ lolz
         • Margaret 1.1.1.1.2

           13 May 2010 at 1:35 pm

           Heh, understandable Mac…there tends to be several of these phrases that Key has used to sidestep poor decisions or offensive comments. Mostly they are in relation to the ‘wages drop’ fiasco. ‘It was Australian wages’ ‘The journalist misheard’ etc….kinda like the Palinism of ‘I can see Canada from my house’ but not so widely known
         • Mac1 1.1.1.1.3

           13 May 2010 at 4:04 pm

           And Maynard J, sorry that I got you wrong. Obviously, the RWNJs missed your subtlety as well.
           • Maynard J 1.1.1.1.3.1

             13 May 2010 at 9:08 pm

             Hey no worries, honest mistake. I was just trying to preempt the diversions and defences that were likely to be forthcoming. And sure enough, it’s all “but in 2002 Clark said X…” so I failed on that count 🙂
2. gobsmacked 2

   13 May 2010 at 12:23 pm

   It was in a prepared speech. Not just an off-the-cuff remark. Not just another John Keyism, opening his mouth and mangling the language.

   So either he knew it would offend, or he’s too stupid to realize that.

   Either way it looks bad.
   • Lew 2.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:26 pm

     Not so sure about that. Referring to events from the previous 24 hours and the given political context, it could have just been plain old idiocy, an example of a confident politician winging it. No sane speechwriter would put that sort of thing into prepared comments, they live in deathly fear of these moments.

     Not that it matters very much either way — what was said was said.

     L
     • mickysavage 2.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 12:34 pm

       It is not in the formal speech notes (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech+2010+new+zealand+hotel+industry+conference)

       Agreed that either he wanted to offend or was just too stupid to realise it.

       I look forward to seeing Turia’s response.
       • Lew 2.1.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 12:36 pm

         Public response so far is fairly mild — but it’s also not characteristic to respond to this sort of thing in public.

         L
         • freedom 2.1.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 1:24 pm

           yes there are many times that call for the quiet word down the hall but there is the begging question…
           how many times has a New Zealand Prime Minister alluded to Maori cannibalism?
         • toad 2.1.1.1.2

           13 May 2010 at 1:28 pm

           I thought Tamati Kruger’s response that it was “in poor taste” was not only diplomatic and restrained, but very clever.
           • Lew 2.1.1.1.2.1

             13 May 2010 at 1:29 pm

             Toad, right. He’s still negotiating.

             L
   • the sprout 2.2

     13 May 2010 at 5:37 pm

     the comment was repeated twice, two different times, to two different audiences (both monotone white, of course)
3. Bright Red 3

   13 May 2010 at 12:24 pm

   What an appalling comment.

   You know, I was pissed off by his ‘take it or leave it’ comments the other day too after he stabbed Tuhoe in the back.

   The settlements process is about righting past wrongs, not about the Crown cutting the toughest deal it can with iwi, as if it’s some commercial transaction.

   Key just doesn’t seem to understand these things. He is trying to do a big job while stuck in the small-minded world of a money trader
   • Lew 3.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:27 pm

     You’ve nailed it, BR. He’s trying to treat treaty settlement negotiations like a transation — value in/value out — with no consideration for the deeper issues in play. It’s frightening.

     L
     • iliveinauck 3.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:32 pm

       you got it he is trying to do the toughest deal he can with iwi.
       He cant see the big picture and he does think hes the funniest man in nz
4. D14 4

   13 May 2010 at 12:28 pm

   >>>>He said the Government would work its way through the challenges.
   and then added ” trust me.
5. Hamish 5

   13 May 2010 at 12:35 pm

   >>>Joke? Or deliberate insult?

   haha – that really is scraping the barrel…..surely you can do better than this ?!
   • kaplan 5.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:42 pm

     Yes Key was scraping the bottom of the barrel and yes, as a country, not only can we do better than this we should expect much better than this from a PM.
6. Andrew 6

   13 May 2010 at 12:39 pm

   hmmm, i can see where your coming from, but, and that’s a big but, when you refer to being eaten for dinner, it’s the same as i’m going to be eaten alive if i go into that room, or terms to that affect. It is a term of phrase that people tend to use off the cuff from time to time.

   do I think JK said this deliberately to cause offence … no.
   do i think that on reflection he will realise that he shouldn’t have said it … yes.
   do i think he said it in a manner that has been misinterpreted, yes.

   So yea, either way i think he was silly to say it given the history, but i don’t think he did it intentionally.
   • Lew 6.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:44 pm

     How about it being a bad thing to say given the complex history between Tūhoe and Ngāti Porou, which involved cannibalism (as well as war, betrayal, disputes over land, differing allegiances to the Crown and missionaries, etc.)?

     L
     • Andrew 6.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:06 pm

       that was what i was referring to when i wrote this line:

       “either way i think he was silly to say it given the history”

       🙂
       • Lew 6.1.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 1:08 pm

         Oh, ok. I withdraw and apologise, then.

         L
         • Andrew 6.1.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 1:20 pm

           no need to apologise. no one lost an eye 🙂
   • kaplan 6.2

     13 May 2010 at 12:44 pm

     You really think Key is that dumb?
   • rainman 6.3

     13 May 2010 at 12:50 pm

     “Silly” doesn’t capture it, “Incompetent” comes close. In a business setting he would be disciplined or fired (but then, so would most of them).

     This is a tricky time for NZ. We need a competent PM, not a lightweight out to add the top job to his CV. If we as a nation insist on voting these idiots back in, and I hope we don’t, can we at least have a proper PM?

     Captcha: WE. Key could productively spend some time meditating on that.
     • MikeG 6.3.1

       13 May 2010 at 12:55 pm

       “We need a competent PM…” – absolutely. We need a leader with gravitas, not just a smile and wave.
       • Lanthanide 6.3.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 1:14 pm

         I wouldn’t say that Goff had “gravitas” though.
         • MikeG 6.3.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 1:31 pm

           I’m not going to disagree with that, but I do think that Goffs words would be a lot more measured. He also wouldn’t come across when being “interviewed” by Sainsbury as being a guest on a TV talk show.
   • lprent 6.4

     13 May 2010 at 12:53 pm

     It was in the prepared text of a speech from what I can see. That makes it much more probable of being deliberate wouldn’t you say?

     Edit: Maybe not part of the prepared text – see Mickey on this comment
   • bluemoon 6.5

     15 May 2010 at 11:04 pm

     What was offensive about this comment was as much the context as the joke itself – after completely pulling the rug out from under Tuhoe, making them seriously lose face and leaving them with a sense of betrayal and dismay – after that he makes light of it as if it’s just a bit of a hiccup and quite funny really…
7. big bruv 7

   13 May 2010 at 12:43 pm

   Any worse than “haters and wreckers”?
   • mickysavage 7.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:44 pm

     Far worse. Good attempted diversion however.
     • Andrew 7.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:08 pm

       says impartial micky
       • Bright Red 7.1.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 1:40 pm

         If you think haters and wreckers was bad, and you do because you mention it every other day, then you must think this is bad too. Indeed, this is far worse because it is appealling to a deep-seated racist myth, Clark’s comments could have been made about any group, they’re not inherently racist.

         Or is it only bad when Clark does it?
         • r0b 7.1.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 2:51 pm

           Clarks comment was stupid, but it was made about a small set of specific individuals, not a general group.
   • Robb 7.2

     13 May 2010 at 1:37 pm

     feral inbred (or something similar )as a reference to Westcoaster, but I guess that was different.
     • big bruv 7.2.1

       13 May 2010 at 2:03 pm

       Of course it was different, Clark said it [ahh, no, she didn’t –r0b] and according to these guys Clark could do no wrong [fool!].

       [lprent: If you look through the posts on this site, or even in the comments, you’ll find very little on Helen Clark. I know, I ran a statistical study of the comments and posts from when we started to the 2008 election. Moreover, the people who spent their time talking about Helen Clark were wingnuts like you.

       Adding you to my personal troll re-education queue because your comments are verging on trolling again. They are stupid assertions about this site with no backing. ]
       • Robb 7.2.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 2:15 pm

         Silly me I keep forgetting Labour Good, National Bad mantra.
         
         [lprent: Where have you been for the last few years. With your head stuffed up your arse? The authors and commentators (including and especially the left ones) here tend to have frequent go’s at Labour for one reason or another, all of the time. I guess that you’re just too ignorant to recognise it. Or more likely you just ignore anything that doesn’t fit your bone-headed preconceptions.

         Adding you to my personal troll re-education queue for making stupid assertions about this site with no backing. ]
         • Robb 7.2.1.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 3:40 pm

           Here’s me thinking the left had a sense of humour 🙁 , my comment was direct at BB. As for your ascertions about me made with no backing…

           [lprent: Try scanning the hundreds of comments that go thru here everyday… Your sense of humour gets distinctly jaded about people coming in to disrespect the site.

           Because of the comment listing, I see every comment in reverse time stamp order, I’m often unaware of context unless I jump to the thread. Which I didn’t in this case, because your comment was a classic wingnut trolling one 🙂 Perhaps you shouldn’t be such as good a mimic 😈

           Sorry, and releasing from purgatory. ]
       • kaplan 7.2.1.2

         13 May 2010 at 2:24 pm

         And when Key refers to people as cannibals it’s OK because of something Helen Clark said years ago?
         Stellar thinking there. Really top stuff.
     • r0b 7.2.2

       13 May 2010 at 2:53 pm

       Ahh – the “feral inbreds” lie. Clark referred to “fairly feral attitudes” and denied making any comment about “inbred” at all. Another right wing nut job urban myth.
8. Hamish 8

   13 May 2010 at 12:47 pm

   feral inbreds, cancerous & corrosive, last cab of the rank – that ring a bell ?

   They were not jokes, either, this is.

   Like I said, the post on this is REALLY scrapping the barrel.

   Wonder if Mr. 7% will play this, hopefully he does, as he always end’s off worse off!!
   • prism 8.1

     13 May 2010 at 1:01 pm

     Hamish you give some ‘quotes’ of past slurs. I have the idea that the ‘feral inbreds’ was actually a reporter’s choice of words to interpret something said.
     In the current case Key said Tuhoe would have had him for dinner. It was Radio NZ News that interpreted that as speaking of cannibalism.

     So it is interesting if dodgy interpretive reporters are confusing the messages we hear.

     One message that we did receive was that Tuhoe don’t rate, they’re good for a quick throw-away quip, that considering the Maori Party and showing respect for a political partner, all these don’t count. This guy should be stowed away for November 5th.
     • Lew 8.1.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:07 pm

       No, prism, Key’s words were that he would “be on the menu”. That’s obviously not intended literally, but neither is it an established trope or idiom like “to have one for dinner” is. There’s no malicious interpretation here.

       L
       • ClarityJones 8.1.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 10:05 pm

         I just watched it – not “on the menu ” eL

         “..ahh the good news is that I was having dinner ah with Ngati Porou – as opposed to their neighbouring iwi which is Tuhoe – which case I would of been dinner – slurp”.

         What is it with the geez shucks slurping?
     • Graham 8.1.2

       13 May 2010 at 1:21 pm

       “Quotes” of past slurs – implying that said quotes may not exist?

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10402966

       Quote: Last week Helen Clark said: “I can’t state too strongly that Labour regards Dr Brash as a corrosive and cancerous person within the New Zealand political system.”

       John Key should not have joked about Tuhoe being cannibals
       Helen Clark should not have called the leader of the opposition corrosive and cancerous.

       Simple, really …
       • Bright Red 8.1.2.1

         13 May 2010 at 1:42 pm

         So… you’re agreeing that what key said was an appeal to a racist myth and wrong because of that.

         Oh, and you found another example of someone saying something they shouldn’t have years ago. That’s nice.
       • Pascal's bookie 8.1.2.2

         13 May 2010 at 3:40 pm

         Graham, have you read The Hollow men?

         NZ dodged a bullet when Brash lost.
         • Rharn 8.1.2.2.1

           13 May 2010 at 7:15 pm

           Only one bullet?. We were being lined up with a Gatling Gun.
       • zonk 8.1.2.3

         13 May 2010 at 6:24 pm

         Err. No Brash is both corrosive and cancerous. Read the productivity report he made and we paid hundreds of thou for.
   • gobsmacked 8.2

     13 May 2010 at 1:03 pm

     Hamish

     The only question you need to ask is:

     What would be the reaction – on the right-wing blogosphere, in the media, from National, and indeed from yourself – if Phil Goff had said this?

     You know the answer. A shit storm.

     Get an umbrella.
9. Hamish 9

   13 May 2010 at 12:48 pm

   Keys comment will only angry morons.

   Key won’t loose anything over this.
   • the sprout 9.1

     13 May 2010 at 12:49 pm

     learn to spell, drongo
   • rainman 9.2

     13 May 2010 at 12:51 pm

     So, Tuhoe are morons?
     • Bright Red 9.2.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:44 pm

       cannibalistic morons if the Right is to be believed.
   • mickysavage 9.3

     13 May 2010 at 12:55 pm

     Keep digging Hamish.

     And learn to spell and a bit of grammer. Your comments look idiotic otherwise.
     • Robb 9.3.1

       13 May 2010 at 1:41 pm

       Nice, play the man not the topic!
       • kaplan 9.3.1.1

         13 May 2010 at 2:21 pm

         So on topic…
         Do you think Key should apologise? If so why, if not why not?
     • Alwyn 9.3.2

       13 May 2010 at 1:43 pm

       Not a good look Micky.
       It’s grammar not grammer.
       Things tend to fall a bit flat if you make the same mistake.
       • mickysavage 9.3.2.1

         13 May 2010 at 1:57 pm

         Doh!

         I do know how to spell it.
         • Lew 9.3.2.1.1

           13 May 2010 at 2:32 pm

           You does?

           L
           • Alwyn 9.3.2.1.1.1

             13 May 2010 at 3:15 pm

             Actually Lew, reading his comment it is spelt IT. It’s words with more than two letters that are the problem.
             I must admit when I put in the earlier comment I must have read it five or six times
             to make absolutely sure that I hadn’t spelt something wrongly.
             It’s just so easy to get the spelling wrong and then have it there forever.
10. Hamish 10

    13 May 2010 at 12:53 pm

    They get angry over the smallest of things.

    Best to ignore them.
    • Lew 10.1

      13 May 2010 at 12:55 pm

      Because ignoring and disregarding Māori grievances worked really well so far, right?

      L
    • AlbatrossNZ 10.2

      13 May 2010 at 3:07 pm

      Silly Tuhoe, getting angry over the death of their families, their land being taken from them and the government not working fairly with them.
11. Jim Nald 11

    13 May 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Gawd help him.

    He rubs insolence into injury, wraps that with jest and smile,
    and offers that to the media, with a nod and a wink to particular factions of his constituency.
    This speaks more about himself cannibalising Mana while he dines on the Maori Party’s confidence and supply agreement.

    The Maori Party has been paying too high a price for their complicity with the NAct Govt.
12. marty mars 12

    13 May 2010 at 12:57 pm

    This dick is the PM. He insults the people he is negotiating with – that is a tactic. He insults them with an iwi where there are very complex relations resulting from the very thing they are negotiating to settle – that is a tactic. Why is he even involved? What do his negotiating team think of this I wonder.

    This also plays to my meme of leaving them alone to break up. Labour does not need to put up its statement – just watch this oil and water seperate.
13. Hamish 13

    13 May 2010 at 1:00 pm

    >>>Because ignoring and disregarding Māori grievances worked really well so far, right?

    Never said that. What I did say, however, is when they throw their toys out of the cot [like this] it is best to ignore…
    • kaplan 13.1

      13 May 2010 at 1:04 pm

      You heard the dog whistle loud and clear didn’t you.
      Here boy, heeeerrreee boy.
      Get in behind.
    • Lew 13.2

      13 May 2010 at 2:34 pm

      Hang on. Tamati Kruger and Te Ururoa Flavell have held their nerve and seem to see this as more of an extension of the negotiative gameplaying. But you can bet they’re not so relaxed behind closed doors. Their price just went up.

      L
      • Bright Red 13.2.1

        13 May 2010 at 3:15 pm

        if we do see it as a purposeful act, a negotiating ploy, then it’s really playing hard ball and only provokes Tuhoe, making a deal even harder.

        It’s not like a market where Key can just walk away and everyone goes on with life.
        • Anita 13.2.1.1

          13 May 2010 at 9:42 pm

          Is there a political or strategic advantage for National in making a settlement with Tuhoe impossible?

          Key will have done plenty of negotiations in his working life, and he will know that sometimes your best tactic is to scupper the negotiation before the first meeting.
14. Hamish 14

    13 May 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I was thinking the same thing yesterday when 7% gave some talk, and surprise surprise, the lap dog’s here jumped! 😀
15. Tigger 15

    13 May 2010 at 1:08 pm

    The irony in the quote is that Key thinks he should feature prominetly on the menu. Again, it’s all about me, me, me with him. He really is alarmingly arrogant.
    • Anne 15.1

      13 May 2010 at 3:15 pm

      … and self centred!

      He is claiming that it was nothing more than a joke. Even if that were so, he could not help but know what the connotation of such a joke would be seen to be. In my book, that makes him an ignorant racist.
16. eye saw 16

    13 May 2010 at 1:10 pm

    What i find offensive is the fact that Key actually thinks that he would be worth eating.

    I see a man on a one lane cycle way to nowhere almost reaching his destination.
17. Carol 17

    13 May 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Well whatever the intentions behind the comment, it seems to have spread quickly around the MSM, and is now listed as the top story on http://news.google.co.nz/

    Also there is this extra quote in the NZH report, taken from News ZB:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644666

    “When asked afterwards whether he [Key] thought Tuhoe would get the joke he replied “I’m sure they will”.”
    • zonk 17.1

      13 May 2010 at 6:26 pm

      Good to see Key getting roasted
18. Brett Dale 18

    13 May 2010 at 1:33 pm

    As soon as Keith Locke says sorry for all his racist, bigoted, hateful anti american BS comments over the years, then key should say sorry.

    Other wise the standard is just setting different standards for different politicans.
    • Bright Red 18.1

      13 May 2010 at 1:47 pm

      So, it’s alright for John Key to be a racist if someone else is (in your view)?

      Loving those standards, brett.
    • The Voice of Reason 18.2

      13 May 2010 at 1:48 pm

      America is not a race, Brett. And Keith Locke is not a racist. You and Goober, I’m not so sure about.
    • gobsmacked 18.3

      13 May 2010 at 1:57 pm

      Keith Locke must be held to account for all his comments, when he’s running the country.

      Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality … what say we worry about the guy who’s actually got the job?
19. Hamish 19

    13 May 2010 at 1:35 pm

    >>>Keep digging Hamish. And learn to spell and a bit of grammer. Your comments look idiotic otherwise.

    Focus on what I’m saying, not how I go about saying it. You only look idiotic if you choose to focus on the last one.
20. Margaret 20

    13 May 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I think quite apart from the issue of how hugely offensive the comment is for issues of cannibalism etc (umm dog whistling bullshit stereotypes anyone??) the PM should not be backhanding important issues like Treaty settlements with quick laugh one liners.

    This is a very crucial settlement and the process itself (let alone Tuhoe) need respect from the ‘leader’ of our country. He should not be insulting anybody for cheap laughs in the same way a school teacher might to get ‘in’ with rowdy 3rd formers. He should be able to have a joke sure…but not about grievances the State has been working on for years.

    He is an idiot. and an idiot with power. super.
    • Mac1 20.1

      13 May 2010 at 3:46 pm

      Cripes, Margaret, teachers are like Key? We use cheap, racist, and offensive jokes to get in with rowdy year 9’s? Not this one.

      I’m glad you use the qualifier ‘might’ but would prefer the generalising and not easily ‘understandable’ (refer your earlier comment above) analogy be not made, and I’m on your side. 🙂
      • Margaret 20.1.1

        13 May 2010 at 5:05 pm

        heh must just be talking about my own teaching style then…not racist jokes…but def lame ones 😛
        • Mac1 20.1.1.1

          13 May 2010 at 5:20 pm

          I do gold lame jokes, myself. With tassels. In good taste. Definitely.
21. dave brown 21

    13 May 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Well the old colonial gentry are back in the saddle now sucking up to the the US imperialists. The MP are the kupapa, and when the Tuhoe resist they are demonised. Labour already had a go at using the ‘terror’ label. Everything is in place for any opposition to this NACT regime to be dealt to as ‘terrorism’. Need to unite all the fights as the only answer to state terror is mass resistance and organisation.
22. Policy Parrot 22

    13 May 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa. While the anti-PC brigade might say certain reaction is tut-tuting, this comment is highly offensive – higher on the scale of offensiveness than the infamous Prince Phillip “slitty-eyed” comment on holidaying in China.

    I would even go as far as saying that John Key did not mean to say it, it is far too glib, and must’ve been an on the go thing, as the ‘handlers’ would have never let it pass.

    Can you ever imagine past Prime Ministers refering to their own living citizens as cannibals?
    • Bright Red 22.1

      13 May 2010 at 1:51 pm

      Key’s had the opportunity to say ‘whops, sorry if i caused any offence’ and he didn’t.

      If it was a mistake initially, it’s not now.

      captcha – ‘desperate’. I love how quickly things spin out of control for this idiot. Last week he was on the verge of settling a terrible injustice with a largely symbolic act (Tuhoe already run parts of the Ureweras as a fiefdom and there would be no cahnge to public access). Now, he’s delivered a one-two punch to his alliance with the Maori Party that will either destroy the alliance or the MP.
    • the sprout 22.2

      13 May 2010 at 5:54 pm

      he made the same comment on two separate occasions. must have thought it was a really funny one worth repeating
23. James John 23

    13 May 2010 at 1:51 pm

    national needs to get back ground they’ve lost with their recent pro-maori attitude, so why not cash in on a hot topic by letting kiwis know that tuhoe’s claim for ownership of the urewera park is off the table.
    what the govt is doing is catering to the fear kiwis have of a maori uprising, lol, then craftily constructing ways (perhaps a 10 year see how it goes plan to return the land) in which to settle claims. all so that they (govt) can grease everyone up.
    after the racial debate has done it’s dash the public wouldn’ve forgotten the issue and moved on, the racists would’ve got their fix and moved on, and those actually sitting around the negotiating table will talk the ‘real’ talk all ‘jokes’ aside.
24. ak 24

    13 May 2010 at 2:23 pm

    First slip on the greasy poll-driven tightrope of promising all things to all people and riding a wave and a grin – and quite spectacularly bad. Surprised it hasn’t happened sooner, but don’t misunderestimate the potentially fatal damage done here.

    In many quarters this will be seen as far worse than the over-egged F&S “storm”. While the latter was quite properly held aloft as a focus for the establishment of the long-awaited pan-maori political force, the context in which Labour acted is well understood. Not admitted overtly, nor accepted as excuse, but understood. For all the rallying “greatest confiscation” rhetoric, no one ever really expected title; nor anything more than the pale “Clayton’s F&S” now proposed by NACT.

    But this latest slap is a doozy: out of the blue from a “friend”, sans any possible mitigating political context like the Brash-manufactured redneckery whirlwind, and smack on top of the Whanau Ora kneecap and “no practical effect” DRIP mutterings – not to mention the numerous dead rats already swallowed.

    Real rage here, that won’t easily dissipate. And now compounded in the worst way possible – a “puwha-and-pakeha” “joke” from the humour-deficit party. The Smiling Snake reappears.

    Possibly the result of a second serious error in the NACT’s internal polling: first on mining, and now on racial tension. Or perhaps someone in Tuhoe just refused to kiss the emperor’s shoes.

    Whatever the reason, this won’t go away: the MP knows it must deliver big or divorce within a year. Whether it hangs on in for a few more crumbs, or forces the issue now, will be interesting to see and should unfold in the coming weeks. I’d suggest that now is the hour: on latest form it should be obvious that NACT won’t hestitate to unleash another Orewa One near the election should the polls dictate. This is worse than F&S: force them to peak early again, or risk total impotence.
25. Inventory2 25

    13 May 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Policy Parrot said “Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa.”

    Is a “faux pa” an imitation Maori village for French tourists?
26. Alexandra 26

    13 May 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Good one I2.
    The problem for the MP is that leaving the ‘alliance’ will kill the whanau ora program. That will leave some of their influential backers like Waipareira in the lurch. I think the MP may have placed themselves in the position of not being able to back out, even if they would like too.
    • marty mars 26.1

      13 May 2010 at 2:51 pm

      I think they can back out because their programs are all barbed – the programs cannot be withdrawn without damage – to get the barb out you have to push through. Whanau ora cannot be withdrawn – it can be judged to be a failure – different story. The UN dec cannot be undone. Can’t get rid of the flag or say we will not revoke the F&S act.
27. Santi 27

    13 May 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Distateful? Since when speaking the truth is distateful? Calling a spade a spade is always good.
    Some Maori tribes each other, so what’s wrong with saying it?
    • Tigger 27.1

      13 May 2010 at 2:55 pm

      I’m calling you a lousy speller. And a bit of a moron.
28. john 28

    13 May 2010 at 2:37 pm

    I think our Corporate Merrill Lynch Prime Minister, used to cosy offices and suited colleagues was not being insulting but merely truthful in showing his elite distaste for messy stuff like Maori Historical grievances. If National had its way all this 19c stuff would be dead and buried long ago. The Urewera Maori are not rational corporate actors,they used to eat people rather than cannibilize consumer suckers ! The latter is far more civilized.
29. Ed 29

    13 May 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Key may have been reading the newspapers. A recent s Dom Post (Wednesday?) had two letters berating National for giving too much to Maori – which the DomPost chose to put first in the letters to the Editor.
30. the sprout 30

    13 May 2010 at 2:47 pm

    awesome
    the guy is G W Bush 2
31. Jessica 31

    13 May 2010 at 2:52 pm

    The posts here are funnier than Keys joke, what a beat up.It only proves how desperate the Mr 7% party are to find some traction.
    To all those here claiming cannibalism is a myth I suggest you read Paul Moons book ( history professor at Te Ara Poutama, the Maori Development Unit at the Auckland University of Technology.) This Horrid Practice
    Please encourage Goofy to come up with some iron clad polcies that will improve NZ as a whole.
    And not just spend borrowed money, I’d hate us to become the Greek Islands of the South Pacific, wouldn’t you?
32. Policy Parrot 32

    13 May 2010 at 3:05 pm

    “Policy Parrot said “Regardless of your politics, this is a pretty major faux pa.’

    Is a “faux pa’ an imitation Maori village for French tourists?”

    Freudian slip, me thinks – meant faux pas. @I2 – Interesting about French “pas” – google Marion du Fresne
33. Alwyn 33

    13 May 2010 at 3:06 pm

    A not particularly funny joke but a joke for all that.
    The only people protesting are likely to be those who believe John Key to be the devil incarnate.
    Oh for the old days when we laughed at the REAL insults that David Lange uttered.
    Wasn’t it hilarious when he called out to Margaret Thatcher that she had forgotten her broomstick?
    Didn’t we say what a wit he was?
    Ah but he was on our side so could do no wrong.
34. Alexandra 34

    13 May 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Marty, if the MP walk my understanding is that all bets are off. In that case the Government can reneg on repealing the F & S Act and reneg on the whanau ora program. If the MP walk there is little incentive for the government to maintain those agreements, given their traditional constituency and the damage is all ready done.
35. vto 35

    13 May 2010 at 3:18 pm

    seems to me that Key is sitting in the exact same seat as the MP MP recently who said that “white motherfuckers been raping and pillaging…”

    He likewise going to have to man up and apologise.
    • The Voice of Reason 35.1

      13 May 2010 at 3:44 pm

      Occurred to me, too, vto. No doubt the naive greenies who leapt to Hone’s defence will be along soon explaining why his racism is ok, but John Boy’s is not. Can’t wait to see those angels dance!
      • Bright Red 35.1.1

        13 May 2010 at 4:30 pm

        yeah. fortunately most on the Left damned Hone’s comments
    • the sprout 35.2

      13 May 2010 at 5:57 pm

      Hone’s comments were however correct
      • vto 35.2.1

        13 May 2010 at 7:28 pm

        and there was no truth in Keys joke mr sprout?

        ha ha, that is probably the funniest thing so far..
36. gobsmacked 36

    13 May 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Key on Radio Live now with Jackson and Tamihere.

    He’s laughing it off, and then a quick “I apologise”.

    He’s now trying to explain the Tuhoe negotiations, and he’s squirming.
    • Lew 36.1

      13 May 2010 at 3:51 pm

      Kruger was on the hour before, and was very statesmanlike.

      L
      • bluemoon 36.1.1

        15 May 2010 at 11:14 pm

        …can he be our PM instead?
37. gobsmacked 37

    13 May 2010 at 4:05 pm

    John Key, interviewed on Radio Live, comes up with one of the great political quotes of our time.

    “Yum yum“.

    Dumb dumb.
38. BLiP 38

    13 May 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Classic National Ltdâ„¢ – when the going gets tough, get out the wedge. If its not them thieving beneficiaries or them murdering criminals or them slack arse public servants its gotta be them cannibals. And this from King John The Clueless of Charmalot who said he didn’t want separatism in Aotearoa – what a fucking joke.
39. Bored 39

    13 May 2010 at 4:25 pm

    We can all say some pretty robust things here, some in dark humour, some without meaning offense, sometimes deliberately. And it is just as public as anything said by MPs, PMs etc, and we have the benefit of anonymity.

    I hate defending the ex-pauper from Bryndwr, but I cant see how anybody can be pure PC 100% of the time, not even this noxious PM. Get a grip bloggers, harden up. The PC crap with the holy cows attached needs to be gone. VTOs example of a MP MPs language shows us how lingually soft we have all gone.
    • BLiP 39.1

      13 May 2010 at 8:10 pm

      Its about context, Bored. He’s not down the pub with his mates winding up the opposition pool team with a few craftily worded and jovial put downs. Rather, for our sins, he is the Prime Minister who has just scuppered a treaty settlement with a devious, focus-group-inspired last minute switcheroo on the Tuhoi and then he goes diving into the media making jokes about them being cannibals.

      Its completely inappropriate and indicative of very poor judgement.
      • Bored 39.1.1

        13 May 2010 at 9:53 pm

        BlIP, lets face it, Key is a prat, lets just give him some more rope and sit quietly in the safe expectation that he will score more own goals whilst hanging himself.
        • Lew 39.1.1.1

          13 May 2010 at 10:00 pm

          How safe is that expectation looking so far? The guy’s got a huge lead in the polls, and some policy runs on the board to go with his screwups.

          When will the left stop underestimating Key and treat him like the actual threat he is? You’d have thought it would be when he had six months of consistent poll lead before the election — but no.

          For all that people around here like to talk about “real” as opposed to “symbolic” or “moral” victories, you sure do seem happy with sitting back and saying “yeah, he’s winning by all objective measures, but everyone knows we really won the battle of ideas”.

          Bah.

          L
          • nochancein2011 39.1.1.1.1

            13 May 2010 at 10:04 pm

            Give up Lew they’re a pack of losers, and just out of university idealogues.

            [stop with the personal attacks on individuals who are not involved in this issue. And stop changing your name]

            [lprent: Actually he is permanently banned under yet another name and IP. Spamming the comments he managed to get in today as ‘areyouretarded’, ‘Nelson munz’, ‘ cmontyburns’, and ‘you’re nuts’. In this case he has been warned, banned, and made nuisance of himself too many times. Getting rid of him off the nets is starting to look like a public service. ]
            • Bored 39.1.1.1.1.1

              13 May 2010 at 10:20 pm

              Lew,

              You got a point, but sooner or later every goon trips over his own fancy footwork. Lets face it, our attacks arent going far, he is immune to our formula. Its all about soundclips, and even his pathetic f****d joke fitted the bill as another line for the masses to absorb as mana from above. Perhaps we now fight him with our own telegenic soundclip artist, but who?
              • Lew …

                13 May 2010 at 10:26 pm

                It’s not just about a person — it’s about an understanding of what needs to be done. Little such apparently exists. Having a flash frontperson without support is just a way to kill a potentially stellar political career.

                L
        • BLiP 39.1.1.2

          14 May 2010 at 12:46 am

          Actually, now that I’m home from the pub, I take that back – it was good judgement in that the escapade will appeal to the white trash and boost his ratings. My tory mates think he’s “the man”.
40. coge 40

    13 May 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Laugh & the whole world laughs with you. Or you can choose to be a victim.
    • george 40.1

      13 May 2010 at 4:44 pm

      You’re a victim of my laughter. Ha. Ha.
    • Bright Red 40.2

      13 May 2010 at 4:44 pm

      Hey, coge, you’re a rapist

      ha ha just joking! can’t you take a joke!
    • Mac1 40.3

      13 May 2010 at 4:46 pm

      Or, coge, you can blame the victim for not having a sense of humour.

      Great rationalising there.
41. gingercrush 41

    13 May 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Oh please it wasn’t racist or offensive. Just a joke. Seems Ngati Porou also saw it that way:

    We got the joke, says Ngati Porou

    A Ngati Porou kaumatua, or elder, says Mr Key’s comment at the marae was just a joke – and was treated as such.

    Apirana Mahuika says the days of barbarism have long since passed and people accept that analogies are used in jokes.

    “I don’t know whether everybody laughed, but we all smiled because we understood it was a joke and we knew the background of the joke. It was not in any way disparaging to Tuhoe the way that he told it.”

    Mr Mahuika says no one present when the comment was made took offence at the Prime Minister’s remarks.
    • Pascal's bookie 41.1

      13 May 2010 at 5:02 pm

      “Mr Mahuika says no one present when the comment was made took offence at the Prime Minister’s remarks.”

      maybe coz no one present was the target of it eh.
    • Marty G 41.2

      13 May 2010 at 7:26 pm

      The joke wasn’t made at Ngati Porou you idiot.

      Look at Tuhoe’s comments.
42. Margaret 42

    13 May 2010 at 5:07 pm

    But aren’t all Maori the same PB?
43. kriswgtn 43

    13 May 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Key should resign
    He’s a clown and the people defending his words here and trying to put the blame on HC are national’s sockpuppets

    better be carefull you might get eaten 😛
44. RedLogix 44

    13 May 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Many years ago I was working in the Beehive once evening with a friend on a trade contract in the building services area. Exiting the lift on the ninth floor there was the rear view of Helen Clark heading towards her office across the foyer. In a moment of inspiration my mate lets rip with his best Muldoon imitation, “He he he…so that’s the little girlie that got the job!”.

    HC froze for a second, spun about and gave as good as she got’ “Bloody uppity tradesmen…I’ll be thanked if you stick to the side entrance!”…with a huge grin on her face.

    If for instance the Opposition Leader had tried the same spot of wit as my mate did … in the House of Parliament for instance, in mean-spirited tones… it would have been likely, and rightly, ripped as a demeaning sexist put down. What works in one setting, can fail dismally in another.

    More than likely Key’s attempt at self-depreciating humour, while it may have played ok for those present who were able to read the tone and body language, comes across less jovially when written down in censorious print. And leaves of course the door wide open for a whole lot of tribal groupthink, hysteria and positioning for political/negotiating leverage.

    If the mood in my workplace is anything to judge, non-Maori NZ is legitimately anxious about a lot of what they are reading and seeing right now. If this is item is overplayed it could very easily backlash against the left.
    • Bill 44.1

      13 May 2010 at 6:27 pm

      I noticed that John Boy made that claim on tv3 news…that it was self deprecating humour.

      But what’s self-deprecating in making a joke of someone else’s behaviours or traits?
      • RedLogix 44.1.1

        13 May 2010 at 7:34 pm

        But what’s self-deprecating in making a joke of someone else’s behaviours or traits?

        It’s pretty much where most humour has it’s roots. Besides it’s obvious that Key was simply acknowledging that his announcement earlier in the week had been badly received in Tuhoe circles.

        The fact of the historic practise of cannabalism in pre-European times is scarcely unfounded or controversial even. Modern Maori do not hide from it, they know it is a grim reality that their ancestors did these things.

        Hone Harawira got a lot of flak for his ‘white mofo’ line. At the time I was pointing out that the reaction was petty much over the top:

        At the same time the white faux outrage is appallingly disporportionate and utterly over the top. If Harawira had expressed exactly the same sentiments in the polite, educated weasel words that Michael Laws routinely uses, no-one would have noticed.

        Well the reality is that from a Maori perspective the way the forests and riverflats were relentlessly burnt and cleared for farms did amount to ‘raping and pillaging’, the failed expectations on the part of the Crown and the way Maori were treated very much as second class citizens… is behaviour that white New Zealanders need to own and understand. A pity many of us didn’t take the jibe with better grace than that shown by Tuhoe in response to Mr Key’s rather mild wee witicism today.
      • Anne 44.1.2

        13 May 2010 at 7:40 pm

        Exactly what I thought Bill. Where does the self deprecating bit come in? Supposedly being eaten by Tuhoe I guess. Well, once upon a time John Boy’s ancestors ate each other too.
45. The Voice of Reason 45

    13 May 2010 at 5:34 pm

    I wonder why he didn’t try it out on Obama at that anti-nukes do? That would have made a terrific photo op; the secret service pummelling the shit out of that dumb guy from the Letterman show.
46. john 46

    13 May 2010 at 6:26 pm

    I listened to John on Jackson and Tamahere, it was just a joke his delivery was soooo caaaalm, I wondered why anyone bothered on this issue!
    ” His voice spoke low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler’s trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it”

    A Joke?
47. Rharn 47

    13 May 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Those with an modicum of common sense realized that after Key’s little stint with David Letterman our PM was no comedian .well not in the accepted sense. However Key thinks otherwise and seems not to realize the importance of diplomacy, not to mention ‘decent’ taste when commenting in the political arena as our PM.

    When it suits Key he is the first to proclaim his working class roots. This of course is a myth that he and the Nats spin on the gullible. Key may have attended a working class school but his repugnant comments in the form of a joke is the type of humour I would expect to hear at a skinhead rally.
48. gobsmacked 48

    13 May 2010 at 7:29 pm

    That “self-deprecating” line shows that he’s making the classic celebrity mistake of falling for his own press coverage.

    FYI John: the PR people make the image for the public to buy, not you.

    “Hello, I’m very modest. It says so here. You gotta admire that!”
49. Doug 49

    13 May 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Wish People would loosen up enjoy this clip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgbPwbsE0oM&feature=player_embedded
    • the sprout 49.1

      13 May 2010 at 8:03 pm

      i get the feeling that’s what Key’s be relying on for a Cultural Advisor
50. Brett 50

    13 May 2010 at 7:41 pm

    LoL Classic.
    • Marty G 50.1

      13 May 2010 at 8:02 pm

      Oh yeah, I remember when Rod Derrett was Prime Minister in the 21st century in the middle of Treaty negotiations, rather than some unknown racist hick in the 1960s.
51. gobsmacked 51

    13 May 2010 at 8:30 pm

    I think John Key’s doing a fantastic job.

    He’s Minister of Tourism, and he wants to raise New Zealand’s profile around the world.

    And now he’s succeeded …

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23833422-new-zealand-prime-minister-sorry-for-maori-cannibal-joke.do

    Yay!
    • Willie Maley 51.1

      13 May 2010 at 9:03 pm

      He is playing a blinder in his role as tourism minister
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/13/john-key-apologises-cannibalism-joke
52. coolas 52

    13 May 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Key’s done this before. Remember his answering a question about Samoan & Fijian Kava by saying, “Well when yer dealing with children ..”

    But he doesn’t mean bad by it. He’s just a buffoon. And making jokes at the expense of minorities is probably par for the course for Key.

    Of course, if Tuhoe are cannibals, what cliches can we have for Jews?
53. Brett Dale 53

    13 May 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Yawn again.

    Are you sure none of you guys work for faux news?
54. cal 54

    13 May 2010 at 11:19 pm

    When will John Key learn, he is NOT funny! Lange and I suppose Muldoon have been our only PM’s who could tell a funny joke, Key just comes across sounding more like Bush. But of course, the Zombie-Nat supporters will laugh along with him…
55. gingercrush 55

    14 May 2010 at 12:51 am

    Meh posted this at Kiwipolitico and rather liked it so posting it here as well.

    What John Key said. Poor taste probably. Racist, no. Offensive well you won’t even get Tuhoe going that far. Calculated? Absolutely.

    That calculation carries a risk but it also has a benefit. Forget the poor performance National and John Key have had as late. This week and the two decisions John made. First to say no to Tuhoe and secondly the joke, will likely shift the mood that was gathering by some about John Key and National. It stops the talk of National pandering to Maori while the joke allows Pakeha New Zealand to nod their head in how pathetic the media is getting so fussed over the matter.

    For the left, no doubt such actions just entrench their view of John Key and National. But the left have shared that view before 2008 and will always have that view. That plays into Key because the more attacks are focused on John Key. The more it plays into National’s hand. Labour and the left just look like bad losers when they attack John Key.

    The risk is it strains the relationship further with the Maori Party and Tuhoe, but also that it gets Key again off-side with the media. Now that Key has no to ownership then the crown must negotiate something that will appease Tuhoe. Meaning while symbolically Tuhoe looks like a loser. Its likely they’re going to get a number of goodies their way that will make other settlements difficult. For the Maori Party they’re going to pin more and more hope on a Foreshore and Seabed deal. They’re actually rather close on that matter. It goes way beyond the present Foreshore and Seabed At. Co-management, veto rights, rights to other minerals (i.e. not Gold, Platinum, Oil and something else), right to address via the courts but also likely a body to allow negotiation directly with the crown. Development and usage rights etc etc etc.

    The sole matter that is causing contention is title. National want “public domain’ because they believe its politically viable but for Maori and the Maori Party its problematic. Therefore, I think National will be forced to include something else. It can’t be Maori Title since pakeha New Zealand won’t like it. But it has to be something better than “public domain’.

    If the Maori Party and National can’t agree on the Foreshore and Seabed relationship then the whole thing is toast. The Maori Party have been quite willing to be kicked around at times and not have Maori seats in Auckland etc. But they’re not viable as a political movement or party without a fundamental deal on the Foreshore and Seabed.

    Thus the risk John Key did this week, is further strain that relationship requiring a fundamental deal on the Foreshore and Seabed whilst playing the race card to pakeha New Zealand. But what happens with pakeha New Zealand if National does a F&S deal?

    The risk with the media is a real danger. For all the talk from both the left and right about bias, its rather all nonsense. Technically, our newspapers tend to have columnists from the right but most of the people doing the actual news are from the left. The media play soft cock to whoever is in power until the time arrives when its game-on and what you do as a politician is no longer going to be ignored. For John Key and National that time has come.

    Therefore, the more Key plays to the PR side of politics the more difficult he’s going to have in delivery of policy and ideas. Increasingly, we’ve seen policy be released that is luke-warm and sometimes rather criticised. The media is critically looking at John Key at the same that Goff is slowly getting more and better media exposure. No longer can Key use a slip-of-the-tongue approach and the media will forget it.

    —

    Thus we have reward and risk. The reward outweighs the risk. But the risk is going to linger there.

Links to post

1. Kiwipolitico » Blog Archive » Insensitive … now wait for the “hypersensitive”: posted on 13 May 2010 at 12:28 pm
2. pligg.com: posted on 13 May 2010 at 9:42 pm
3. Hooten has “loose lips” syndrome as well « The Standard: posted on 17 May 2010 at 5:29 pm
4. Hey! Mr Tally Man… « The Standard: posted on 29 May 2010 at 10:22 am

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