The real story is here: Fisking Grant Robertson.

I think abrtion has it’s own problems. It’s a special case. Many parents will be bringing all sorts of crazy baggage to the situation. Like you say, it’s not like getting a tooth filled. The consequences, no matter the decision, are large, and at the end of the day are the result of the young womans choices. (assuming consensual sex)

I don’t think that parents should be allowed to force a girl to carry a pregnancy she does not want, or to abort one against her will.

Personally I think your underestimating them.

And yes beating your pregnant daughter then forcing her to keep the baby go hand in hand. They are both ways for an unstable parent to release anger and punish their daughter. Any harm or defect caused to the baby is a punishment from god for the mothers sinning.

Now that I’ve “finished my homework”, do you think there are any decisions a 13-year-old girl should have to run past her parents?

At what age do children free themselves from the shackles of their parents and become free to do whatever they like?

I apologise if it seems like I’m trying to play gotcha, I’m just trying to work out where you stand, policy wise.

I think parents are entitled to make decisions for daughters aged 15 or younger, especially decisions with major implications like abortion.

Crystal clear.

I’m not trying to avoid the question — honest.

I think parents are entitled to make decisions for daughters aged 15 or younger, especially decisions with major implications like abortion. This isn’t like picking an outfit for school.

Sorry, I just don’t believe 11-, 12-, 13-, 14- and 15-year-old girls are able to make a decision like this by themselves. Maybe there can be provisions for trusted adults (family friends etc) to be consulted rather than the parents, but as more and more studies point to the ongoing implication of abortion, to allow someone so young to make the decision themselves seems irresponsible.

Anita,

Glad you liked it Not sure if it’s an original line. I don’t recall ever hearing it and I’d never thought of it before. Just came to me.

I don’t care if it seems incompatible to you. People do things all the time that are incompatible with their asserted convictions. Pro lifers sometimes get abortions, and people who believe that God is merciful and just fly planes into buildings.

I know you don’t understand why they do these things, but they do. They are people Scribe, and that’s people for you.

But never mind that, really never mind it, just address this:

“And “Mum will be mad” is not adequate reason.”

How about, “Mum and dad will be real mad, girl might well get a beating, be removed from school and forced to carry the pregnancy against her will”

I’ll even drop the beating bit seeing it’s confusing you so much. Would that be adequate reason to not inform / seek parental consent?

And cut the ‘wanting her to choose’ framing. The question is about not allowing her to choose. This may be done via beatings, sending her away to an ‘aunties’ place for a while, threatening her with hell and damnation, disowning her etc and so on. All the while pileing on the guilt and blame and throwing around muderer talk.

Don’t try and pretend that this sort of thing would never happen when strict prolifers are trying to prevent a ‘murder’ in their family Scribe.

Parents who truly beat their children usually can’t even count to 59.

Best line so far this week IMHO

Beating a teenage girl yet wanting her to choose to have the child rather than abort it seems incompatible to me. Violence begets violence.

And don’t try the “anti-abortion folks want to be allowed to beat their children” line. First of all, smacking a three-year-old is different from beating a 14-year-old girl. Not to mention the fact the people who opposed the repeal of section 59 don’t beat their children.

Parents who truly beat their children usually can’t even count to 59.

Why?

I don’t know either, so won’t hazard a guess.

You don’t have to. The question was whether where such an outcome was considered likely, should the parents be informed.

How rare do you think that situation would be across many different cultural groups?

I don’t know, but I’d say it would be a sizable percentage of the few abortions that are performed under the circumstances you are concerned about.

I don’t know either, so won’t hazard a guess. I think parents who would beat their teenage daughter are pretty unlikely to take her out of school and force her to carry on with the pregnancy. Those two responses seem incompatible to me.